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| What's with this anti-directory structure movement? |
| By Thom Holwerda on 2012-07-25 22:18:04 |
| The article I'm about to link to, by Oliver Reichenstein, is pretty terrible, but it's a good way for me to bring up something I've been meaning to talk about. First, the article: "Apple has been working on its file system and with iOS it had almost killed the concept of folders - before reintroducing them with a peculiar restriction: only one level! With Mountain Lion it brings its one folder level logic to OSX. What could be the reason for such a restrictive measure?" So, where does this crusade against directory structures (not file systems, as the article aggravatingly keeps stating) come from? |
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| To the point |
| By Ford Prefect on 2012-07-25 22:30:40 |
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A good commentary, Thom. This is the second level of file-based vendor lock-in after the proprietary file format thing just doesn't work like back in the days any more. It is now wonder that it comes from cell phones. It reminds me well of my feature phone that can run all these nifty Java ME applications, but I am not allowed to upload them myself. |
 - Score: 9 |
| BeOS |
| By henderson101 on 2012-07-25 22:30:55 |
| Thom - BeOS live queries. This is how I used to find files. It was rare for me to traverse file structures. MacOS X Spotlight, I don't need to know where a file is. Windows, well, on 7 I have a few folders pinned that have my useful files in them. Do I know how to use a file system? Yes. Do I feel compelled to complicate my file storage? No. |
| - Score: 6 |
| Interesting |
| By bouhko on 2012-07-25 22:42:56 |
|
I have a few questions regarding this new Document Library thing : - It seems to still allow folders (would be a fucking huge mess otherwise), but only one level. This seems really dumb. Like if you keep your contracts or receipts, it makes a *lot* of sense to have a contracts folder and inside it at least one folder per year (and maybe then per-month). - How does it handle files that can be used by multiple apps : html, photos/images, etc... ? Oh and I think I've never heard anybody complain about how having folders is hard. I think it's one of the easiest computing concept to understand for non-tech people. It's actually like in real life. You'll have a shelf with a "receipt" folder and then in it you'll have on folder per year or whatever. Now, I'm all for adding tagging and metadata capabilities to filesystem with a nice UI so you can easily have a file in multiple folders and search/filter them more easily. But removing the whole folder concept seems really dumb. |
| - Score: 8 |
| itunes |
| By stabbyjones on 2012-07-25 22:48:39 |
| Why would you need an easy way to find your files when you can just pay for them through itunes like a good boy? |
| - Score: 16 |
| Both have place |
| By sukru on 2012-07-25 23:02:41 |
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I use a mix of hand structured directories, and Windows 7 native search for organizing my stuff. This way, I can have my structured stuff - like software projects in perfect order, and never need to remember where I put a word document (they just go to an archive, which I can easily search). But the phone model is completely broken. You can neither organize, nor search them. They are all belonging to apps. Even worse in WP7. For example if you want to attach a PDF from the web to an email, there is no way to do it. The PDF will automatically belong to Adobe Reader, and it can only view or delete them. The email app will not even look at those. And the PC transfer application (Zune) will not touch anything other than multimedia. You can share the link, though :) |
| - Score: 5 |
| Hierarchies |
| By PlunderBunny on 2012-07-25 23:18:59 |
| This may sound contradictory, but I don't think think it's the concept of folders [née directories] that's hard for 'normal' users to grasp, it's the concept of hierarchies. Technical people like to organise things in tree-like hierarchies, but (with all due respect), we don't grasp just how unnatural this is for ordinary people. |
| - Score: 0 |
| RE: BeOS |
| By phoudoin on 2012-07-25 23:20:02 |
|
Even if I myself do used BeOS and still does use Haiku, it's not rare for me to traverse file structures. For a simple reason: I don't create the whole set of files and folders, and often the structure itself is part of a "larger thing", not just a bunch of disconnected files but a way to structure the relation between them, too. Like... source tree. Anyone having to work on a large flat (all in one folder) source code knows how stupid is it. And, in such case, no smart search tool can recreate the missing bits, because these bits, this missing structure, has *semantic* value, not just a technical arrangement. Wait. Dumbification/beingidiotpro of/ourwayorthehighway? Oh. Okay, then. Who am I to think I can actually do better job than a computing device. Or just want to try it, to keep control on the way I use these tools, while clearly these tools deserve to have a dumber user compliant with their *innovating* way. Please update my iBrain, I'm ready to "think different" (and grammatically, wrong, BTW). Go. Charge me (pun intended ;-) ) Edited 2012-07-25 23:29 UTC |
| - Score: 12 |
| RE[2]: BeOS |
| By PlunderBunny on 2012-07-25 23:58:44 |
| You do realise that this one-level directory restriction applies only to documents saved in iCloud, don't you? Saving files on your Mac hard disk continues to work the way it always has. |
| - Score: 4 |
| RE[3]: BeOS |
| By phoudoin on 2012-07-26 00:08:44 |
|
I do. I also realized that's it's done voluntary to prepare people to drop local storage in favor of cloud one, and indeed losing multiple level hierarchy is one feature that needs to be less visible to end-user to ease this move. Last but not least, I realized the argument that it's better that way is uncomplete: it's better for cloud companies in term of profit and storage complexity management, but it's a feature regression for end-users. Not that I care that much: I don't plan to use an Apple technology anytime soon, and if I use cloud storage one day, it will be as crash plan storage, with signed encrypted backup files. For the share everywhere everytime everyone, OwnCloud or similar is fine enough, thank you. |
| - Score: 8 |
| Oliver has lost it. |
| By howitzer86 on 2012-07-26 00:10:18 |
|
It's simple. People aren't smart enough to use computers. They can't start their own projects with their own meaningful file structure. If you paint a texture for a game project, you'll just have to live with it being right next to the wedding photos. Like web design? Too bad, your index.html is just going to have to sit next to all your other html files, including other index pages. You're not smart enough to program anyway, go back to watching Pit Boss you dummy. You're just not smart enough to use a computer, let alone use it to do actual work. At least, that's what this nut-case thinks. I doubt Apple would ever go so far as to remove your access to your own files. Too many art "geeks" depend on them. I mean think about it, when you develop software, a website, or even a movie, you know you Oliver is simply off his rocker. Apple depends on those "Geeks" he speaks so poorly about to produce content for Apple to publish, websites for Macs to read, and programs that run on their computers and i-devices. That's why they can't even take your console away, because they know their developers still need it. There's only so much iOS-ification you can do to a computer before it becomes too much of a hassle to develop for, so you can count on this just being a fantasy. |
| - Score: 7 |
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