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| Lazarus 1.0 Free Pascal IDE released |
| By special contributor Snorkel on 2012-08-30 22:38:02 |
| After more than a decade, Lazarus has reached version 1.0. For those that don't know Lazarus - it's a Delphi-like IDE for the Free Pascal Compiler and has widget sets for win32/64 GTK2, Qt, and others. It's very very much like Delphi and instead of the VCL it has the LCL which is cross platform. Syntax is almost exactly the same as Delphi. You can create stand-alone win32/64 executables that require no .NET runtime or even an installer. |
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| RE: Delphi |
| By snorkel1 on 2012-08-31 16:19:22 |
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I have to disagree with you. Delphi and Lazarus apps are stand alone, I can make a Lazarus app that targets win32, the LCL is statically compiled in and I can take any windows OS from 98 up and it will simply work, .net on the other hand has so many different versions it's like java version hell. I work in a large corporate environment and because .net changes so often it becomes a huge pain with the software packaging department because they only support a certain version of .net, and if you need .net 4.x and they will only support 3.x you are going to be fighting to get them to update all the copies of windows in the enterprise. Delphi and Lazarus apps that don't use a dll, and you CAN create rich beautifull apps with just the LCL or VCL, can simply be put on the users desktop and it just works, people here can't believe I can write them a app that just works from the deskotp with no issues. .net is really for lemmings following the MS bullshit band wagon, now you have winforms and WPF, while in in Delphi and Lazarus there has only ever been the VCL or LCL. |
 - Score: 3 |
| RE[2]: Delphi |
| By snorkel1 on 2012-08-31 16:24:13 |
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Totally agree with you. People just don't see the value of Lazarus and Free Pascal and the amazing apps you can create that work on windows and linux (and others). I recently created a IM server and I can cross compile the linux daemon right on my windows 7 desktop and at the same time build a debug version of the daemon that outputs logging to a win32 form app. I can then test the whole thing on windows 7 and easily build the linux executable on the same box. Just amazing if you ask me, Lazarus is what Delphi should have been. |
| - Score: 2 |
| Comment by snorkel1 |
| By snorkel1 on 2012-08-31 16:36:37 |
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"Yes they do. They need the system libraries. They are native assembly level code, but ever Windows OS from Windows XP onwards has had the .Net loader as part of the native OS once the framework is installed. The framework has been installed by default since 2.0, which I believe was part of an XP service pack (sp 3?) and was certainlt part of server 2003 and Vista. " hmm, system libraries are not a run time and the .net framework is a wrapper around those system libs. Let say you create a nice shiny new .not 4.x or whatever the latest version is these days and you have to deploy to windows XP, you simply cannot guarentee that every PC will have the required .net runtime installed. Even in a corp environment they may have standardized on .net 3.5, so you are going to have problems deploying, not to mention if you use something other than C#, then you have to deploy all the VB.net assemblies. Now I can take Lazarus, create ONE single exe that I can take care not to use external DLLs if possible, even if I use sqlite, I can deploy a single dll for that or I can use a sqlite component set that statically links the sqlite object files into the exe and still I have one exe that will simply work all the way down to windows 98, sorry but you cannot do that with .net unless you are in a highly controlled environment. Sure you can have your setup.exe force the user to download and install the required .net runtime, but seriously.... |
| - Score: 2 |
| ... |
| By Hiev on 2012-08-31 17:15:20 |
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Btw, my favorite application, Peazip, it's developed with Lazarus. Edited 2012-08-31 17:15 UTC |
| - Score: 2 |
| Comment by snorkel1 |
| By snorkel1 on 2012-08-31 17:43:24 |
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"But anyhow, I see your point. That standalone to you means without dependency. And I understand that in recent years .NET framework is nearly ubiquitous on at least Vista and up. " Folks, of course a Lazarus win32/64 app has the dependency of windows itself as it is a WINDOWS application. Depending on the OS itself is not the same as depending on a runtime like .net or java, it does not matter that .net is installed on XP and up either out of the box or via a SP. Bottom line is .net apps are not capable of being stand alone requiring simply the base target OS to be in existence. Try this: create a simple hello world app in Delphi or Lazarus and one in .net (C# whatever) install windows XP from a older install CD that is un patched(this happens all the time folks) Guess which hello world app is going to work? ding ding ding Lazarus/Delphi You can try and spin the .net thing anyway you like, but having the ability to create quick or even larger scale apps that you don't have to worry about them working on any windows OS from 98 up is a huge plus. Remember if those system libs are not present you won't be using Windows at all as it will not work with out them, so if you lose the system libs you lose your ability to even use the OS.... Edited 2012-08-31 17:46 UTC |
| - Score: 2 |
| RE: Delphi |
| By zledas on 2012-08-31 18:18:09 |
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"About all it has going for it is that they can't hash up the LCL any more than Borland did with the CLX** did... though IIRC they have an LCL for MacOS X that tries to map Windows VCL concepts on to the Mac... hmmmm. " Lazarus has LCL not only for Windows and MacOS X but for GTK and QT (this means Linux FYI) as well. Edited 2012-08-31 18:20 UTC |
| - Score: 2 |
| RE: Comment by snorkel1 |
| By dmantione on 2012-08-31 19:50:19 |
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I find the benefit description still a bit weak. The fact that the exe has lower dependencies and can work on older Windows and PE-environments is indeed a benefit. A much more important benefit is the reduction of overhead. Not requiring a JIT compiler allow fast-launching of the application, low memory requirements and if you plan to do some number computation work you will like much faster execution of the code. The memory footprint of a Lazarus application is an order of magnitude lower than a .NET application. The impact on user experience can be huge: Instead of a slow application they hate to use, can get a agile, responsive application. |
| - Score: 3 |
| RE: Delphi |
| By modmans2ndcoming on 2012-09-01 16:48:33 |
| I think it has potential for educational use. Delphi/Pascal is really good for revealing Computer Science concepts. |
| - Score: 2 |
| RE: Delphi |
| By tom1000000 on 2012-09-01 17:44:20 |
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"But today I wonder why we still need to make silly claims like "doesn't need .Net runtime" when the .Net Runtime is installed by default in Windows 7, "compiles to a stand alone exe", which is bull, as the exe requires the subsystem that arrived with the OS (e.g. Win32)" You are blatantly wrong. Lazarus supports Win98, 2000 and later versions. .NET definitely isn't installed by default on Win98 or 2000. A standalone exe is an excellent feature that Microsoft's bloated compilers probably can't do. Edited 2012-09-01 17:47 UTC |
| - Score: 2 |
| RE[3]: Delphi |
| By WorknMan on 2012-09-01 23:01:11 |
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> Let me turn this around, are you saying that the .Net framework that is installed as part of the OS is not "native"? Please define "standalone". The meaning of 'standalone' is very simple. It simply means this: Can I install the OS, and then run the executable without having to install any additional runtime libraries? If the answer is yes, then it qualifies as standalone. If the answer is no, then it doesn't. So basically, if .NET is included with the OS install and I can run the application without having to download anything, then it qualifies. If you have to have the latest service pack for an OS, then I assume that still qualifies, though I suppose we could get a debate going about that :) Edited 2012-09-01 23:01 UTC |
| - Score: 1 |
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