|Review: Windows 8 RTM|
|By Thom Holwerda, submitted by Bob Stein on 2012-09-26 20:16:43|
|ActiveWin.com has just posted their 45-page, 40-screenshot review of Microsoft Windows 8. The review covers many different aspects of the OS including performance, security, application compatibility, and more. "Is Windows 8 a hit or miss? It's a hit, it is clearly Microsoft's most bold development in years, it probably beats out the transition from Program Manager (Windows 3X) to Windows 95, the move from Windows 9x to the NT Kernel. The Windows 8 platform represents so many things: truly touch centric, support for modern processor architectures, fast and fluid as Microsoft puts it and also represents where the majority of the world is heading when it comes to computing, entirely mobile."|
|RE: A mixed bag|
|By WorknMan on 2012-09-27 20:56:50|
> What does "power-user" mean to you? |
In a broad sense, I classify users into 3 different categories:
- Tech tard: How does this f**king app work?
- Power user: What are the shortcut keys? How do I customize the toolbar? Is it scriptable?
- Geek: What toolkit was this app written in? Is it open source?
|- Score: 1|
|RE: Comment by Gusar|
|By ze_jerkface on 2012-09-27 23:41:44|
Then you can remove it from the start screen. NEXT!
So I remove everything from the start screen and reorganize it where? I love how you expect us to do all this work for......what exactly? Or we will will just stay with Windows 7 like the rest of the corporate world and laugh at Sinofsky/Ballmer and Windows 8 defenders like yourself as the stock drops.
Because moving your hand to the keyboard is soooo problematic .
It's extra time that you don't seem to deny. That is what Windows 8 breaks down to, extra time.
If you are needing to use the phone and the computer at the same time you should be equipped with the headset.
LOL so our development teams will have to request headsets for an OS upgrade. Or we will stick with Windows 7.
> If you aren't using it that regularly, I doubt you are seriously using the computer since humans are not capable of proper multitasking (there has been significant research into this).
YouDon'tNeedThat(TM). Windows 8 defenders have replaced Linux defenders and use the same arguments.
> So you have some very, very specific requirements and your own made up shortcuts and a very particular workflow.
It's actually quite common for internal software development. You deploy to virtualized servers first for testing and then later to prod.
> Sorry, how the f--k are they supposed to optimize the OS for that?
They can not break our workflow by doing the following:
> Sorry, in one thread here you say "they didn't actually do any research", when you are called out on how something is supposed to be used ... you say your work flow is sooo f--king custom, that it needs the purity of the Win 7 interface.
Yes they didn't do any research on how the start menu is used by power users or in corporate environments. Not sure where you are seeing a contradiction.
Firstly, it f--king easy to put 20 apps on there (you can even make it double height), secondly you can actually set an icon yourself for your own shortcuts.
Yes I am aware that I could go and set custom icons for all my shortcuts just as I could go and reorganize all the Excel files that I have to reference. I could also go and take out all the unrelated department folder icons that I don't use and I could go ask for a headset .... and I could also put up with the full screen animation when I do actually want to search .... I could also..... do you see a pattern here? What is the point of all this?
> False. It on the windows blog, and it pretty evident if you ... I dunno actually used it.
What you can't describe them? Do tell how multi-monitor support is improved for desktop applications.
> So far from what I have gleaned you are probably one of those people that like to spend all day preparing to do work rather than actually doing it.
That must be it. I don't actually work, nor does corporate America. Sinofsky is a genius and all the hatred is from people who don't work.
That must be it. You'reAllWrong(TM)
Or Windows 8 is a POS system designed as part of a lame duck strategy to compete with the iPad and doesn't offer enough benefits to desktop users to be worth the upgrade. Hell it isn't even worth pirating.
|- Score: 2|
|By kaiwai on 2012-09-28 14:48:13|
> Actually, as much as the concept of a stable driver ABI is lovable in theory, Windows does not really have it anymore. As an example, Microsoft switched GPU drivers API ABI from XP to Vista, added new features that required new drivers to be supported in Win7, and now they are breaking it once more just for the fun of it with Windows 8. Goes to show that in the realm of hardware support, manufacturer cooperation is much more important than technical merits. |
Are you f--king serious?
There is a big difference between totally different version of the OS and breaking ABI/API compatibility within the same version of the distro.
The same driver written in 2001 for XP will work with XP SP3 EOL.
Same goes for Vista, 7 and 8.
Sorry it is not comparable.
And IIRC Windows Vista and Windows 7 supported XPDM drivers - the experience wasn't pleasant but it has been only in Windows 8 where they removed such support. 10 years supporting a display driver API is pretty damn good in my books when compared to, as you noted, Linux distributions lack not only inter-compatibility but compatibility moving forward if the kernel is updated with a patch. Remind me of my experience with Fedora where a new kernel would be released but have to wait for a recompile and repackaging of the nVidia drivers with a hope that nothing has been broken with the update.
There is a reason why it isn't worth replying to Neolander - end of the day I've been coming here less and less as the quality of the contributing posts have been sliding further and further down hill.
Edited 2012-09-28 14:50 UTC
|- Score: 3|
|By Neolander on 2012-09-28 17:52:25|
> And IIRC Windows Vista and Windows 7 supported XPDM drivers - the experience wasn't pleasant but it has been only in Windows 8 where they removed such support. |
Unpleasant as in half of the new graphics-related features missing, software compatibility breakages (some core Vista API features like Direct3D 10 do happen to require WDDM drivers to work), and Windows Update constantly nagging you to install the unfinished WDDM driver instead ?
Might as well use the VESA fallback drivers then. Which, mind you, have been of unmatched quality on Windows for as far as I can remember. One has to wonder why on the OSS side of things, stupid Xorg just drops users to a command line with satanic imprecations when a driver doesn't work, instead of just trying a fallback driver like Windows does.
> 10 years supporting a display driver API is pretty damn good in my books when compared to, as you noted, Linux distributions lack not only inter-compatibility but compatibility moving forward if the kernel is updated with a patch. Remind me of my experience with Fedora where a new kernel would be released but have to wait for a recompile and repackaging of the nVidia drivers with a hope that nothing has been broken with the update.
Man, that's two people now who explicitly ignore that I wrote exactly that very thing in my previous post. And seem to assume that I claimed that Windows is as bad as Linux distros for everyday software updates, which is also perfectly untrue : I was only talking about in-place (or "distro", if you want) upgrades. Updates are, as I also stated previously, a distro-dependent manner : some distros do them relatively right, some don't.
The first time around I just ignored the reply with disdain, but it does sound like I have to ask it openly : do you two really want to see me as a Linux zealot so badly because I happen to state disturbing things your favorite OS, that you wil not hesitate to ignore large chunks of my posts to this end ? As in, in your mind, I must be some kind of religious fanboy if I don't agree with you ?
> There is a reason why it isn't worth replying to Neolander - end of the day I've been coming here less and less as the quality of the contributing posts have been sliding further and further down hill.
Each time I have this feeling myself, it turns out to be caused by high activity from posters which I don't like (which are, in my case, mostly extremists which will write the worst bullshit to defend their company, OS or device of choice). You should probably be careful not to fall into the same psychological trap. Just saying.
Edited 2012-09-28 17:55 UTC
|- Score: 1|
|RE: No thanks...|
|By Fergy on 2012-09-28 21:47:35|
> Yes because Activation is such a terrible thing. |
Anyway everyone was pirating Windows at the time, f--king everyone. Blame all the pirates for things like DRM and Activation and what not.
Activation is for paying customers. Pirates use the easy version that installs itself without any hassle.
Edited 2012-09-28 21:48 UTC
|- Score: 2|
|By bassbeast on 2012-09-29 13:25:49|
Sure its good...if you are on a tablet. on a desktop? Eeeew. Where MSFT blew it was refusing to accept cell phone and tablet conventions simply don't make any damn sense on a desktop. |
Take the whole "turn the page" maneuver. Now on a tablet sitting in your lap, or a cell phone held between your hands? This move makes sense, its how we use books after all. on a desktop with a vertical screen or a non touch laptop this makes NO sense and is just awkward and wrong and if you have to do it on a touchpad its downright unpleasant.
Its a bad design folks, that's all it is, a bad design. Ballmer and Sinofsky decided to throw a Hail Mary pass because they couldn't give WinPhone 7 away and thought that by forcing the WinPhone UI onto desktop users when their contracts came up they'd buy WinPhones and WinTabs, at greatly inflated prices if the rumors are to be believed.
Will it work? well considering I've had a Win 8 desktop set up in my shop to play with and the response has been "Yuck!" or "stupid" I'm gonna have to vote no. I have a feeling this is gonna make Vista look like a hit, people will do just as they did with Vista and simply refuse to buy any unit that doesn't come with the previous OS. This is gonna hurt the OEMs badly, who are already reeling from all those Ultrabooks intel told them would sell which now gathers dust on the shelves, and I have a feeling they won't put up with tanking sales for long before they demand Win 7 to sell.
|- Score: 1|
|RE: A mixed bag|
|By bassbeast on 2012-09-30 09:28:50|
Let me ask you a question though, what makes it worth upgrading from 7? What feature is so "wow" you feel its worth that $40 or after jan 15th $100? |
If they had made metro optional? Then I could see it IF they kept the $40 upgrade price. after all a faster boot would probably be worth $40 over the long haul, but come Jan 16th when you can't get it for $40 and are faced with win 7 and Win 8 for the same price, what's the selling point? Why should I put up with the fugly start screen or have to hack it if I can get 7 for the same price?
|- Score: 2|
|By bassbeast on 2012-09-30 09:36:56|
Question: What was wrong with Win 7? Because I can honestly say it was the first Windows OS since Win2K Pro where I could say without hesitation "You should be using this over previous versions, i don't care who you are". |
I personally loved WinXP X64 but I just couldn't say that, too few drivers for the more offbeat hardware and the cost of RAM at the time made it not worth it to the average PC owner but with 7 I could point out a laundry list of good things, jumplists and breadcrumbs making it beyond simple to get back to where you were last working, Aero snap made file operations like comparing folder contents easy, Readyboost let you move small I/Os to any flash stick thus giving you better performance, WMC with Internet TV making net TV easy, MSFT FINALLY putting some real common sense into memory management and using RAM as a cache when not in use instead of pounding the paging file, i could go on and on.
So if it was the choice of going Mac or sticking with XP or worse Vista? then i could see it. But Win 7 is the first MSFT OS in ages where its got something that will be useful to just about anyone, its solid and runs well and is just a pleasure to use, so why go Mac?
|- Score: 2|
|By zima on 2012-10-01 21:43:25|
> Sadly, many people happen to buy crappy hardware because it's cheap and they don't know enough about tech to be aware of what that they are doing. So... |
Though expensive, high-sticker-price hardware doesn't really assure future support. It being rarer, more niche, can in fact decrease the chances...
Around here I have two webcams from the end of last century. One is as-classic-as-it-gets Logitech Quickam Express, very inexpensive even at the time ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qui... and mine is even a black-logo OEM package, was notably less expensive) ...and with quite horrible quality, fairly crappy overall. The other is a Philips Vesta Pro/Scan, with decent quality, exceptional low-light performance (which gave it a prominent place in amateur astrophotography http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mol... http://www.pmdo.com/wintro.htm http://keithwiley.com/vesta675mo... http://thierrylambert.free.fr/ma... http://www.astrosurf.com/astrobo... ), and quite pricey in its day, I believe (it found its way to me as a surplus hw) ...remaining so for a while, I think, with how it was sought-after for astro.
Now, I'll let you guess which one of those webcams is supported by all popular Windows versions in a totally plug'n'play fashion (as in, you connect it and everything works, the driver is included with the OS - despite the webcam predating USB video class standard), and which is supported only up to XP... (and requiring 3rd party driver there)
Similar with one "pro" audio card that also found its way to me, E-mu APS, essentially abandoned a long time ago. Except, it's related to SB Live! (I believe APS was the first card using the EMU10K1 chip - it sure has visibly "old style" packaging there), so it's supported by a sort of community project targeting this family: http://kxproject.lugosoft.com/
If you want to be safest from driver woes, get what's popular and still suitable to your needs.
> Still, there are some things that cannot be fixed with updates, such as an input peripheral breakage that prevents people from installing these updates altogether.
Oh I don't know if this one would be so bad - from what I see, most laptops are used with a mouse attached, anyway.
|- Score: 2|