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| 'Valve: Linux more viable than Windows 8 for gaming' |
| By Thom Holwerda on 2012-10-29 23:34:02 |
| I'm not 100% sure this is actually word-for-word, but alas. "In a presentation at Ubuntu Developer Summit currently going on in Denmark, Drew Bliss from Valve said that Linux is more viable than Windows 8 for gaming. Windows 8 ships with its own app store and it is moving away from an open platform model." I feel like a broken record by now but here we go again: keep an eye on Valve, even if you're not into games. This is the company pushing NVIDIA and AMD to improve their Linux support, with enough clout and name to actually get stuff done. Valve doesn't mess around. |
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| RE[5]: It's a Valve's game |
| By tomcat on 2012-10-30 16:08:09 |
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> It isn't when you take long-term into account, something many people refuse to do here. Long-term, Windows is going Metro-only. That effectively kills any serious gaming on Windows - and Microsoft is okay with that, because they've got an Xbox to sell you. You don't know what you're talking about. Native Metro apps written in C/C++ are basically the same as native Win32 apps: They use D3D11, swap chain/flip mode, game loop, input events, raw mouse support, etc. I know because, unlike you, I've actually written Metro games; not regurgitated lame BS that I read on some blog. |
 - Score: 3 |
| Games on linux, more fun, yeah. |
| By ParadoxUncreated on 2012-10-30 16:09:26 |
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Games on linux are more fun yeah. If you had a television set, and the pictures would stop at times, and sound skip, you`d think it is broken. Yet on a PC this is ok? If you remove more than 200 components on a windows XP install, you will get quite nice performance in most games. Jitter sensitive games will still not perform as good as they can. Particulary games like doom 3 which uses several (3) passes to OpenGL. Well maybe it even uses direct3d on windows, which gives slighly more overhead. (Read valve linux blog). I have gotten this game to work very nicely without dropouts on linux. And improving the whole PCIe bus jitter thing, seems to improve the whole computing experience. Not only does it improve gaming, and let more of the potential of the computer be used, but it is FAST. A lot of activity is there on the next frame. I actually bought a mac mini for OSX, but that seems outdated now. Feels so slow compared to what I have gotten used to in linux. This has actually inspired me to buy a low-jitter workstation aswell, but there is so much ignorance and lack of knowledge on this in the common consumerspace that it is hard to get the point across. Peace Be With You. Edited 2012-10-30 16:14 UTC |
| - Score: -1 |
| RE[6]: It's a Valve's game |
| By Thom_Holwerda on 2012-10-30 16:31:00 |
|
> You don't know what you're talking about. Native Metro apps written in C/C++ are basically the same as native Win32 apps: They use D3D11, swap chain/flip mode, game loop, input events, raw mouse support, etc. I know because, unlike you, I've actually written Metro games; not regurgitated lame BS that I read on some blog. Why so hostile? Did I insult you? In any case, let's see how many serious games will be available through Metro one year from now. Hint: it'll be very little. |
| - Score: 2 |
| RE[5]: It's a Valve's game |
| By ansidotsys on 2012-10-30 16:33:31 |
|
You're buying too much into Gabe's bullshit as if he is some sort of holy and honest defender of gaming territory. He's a defender of his own territory. The bottom line is this: Microsoft is not going to abandon the Win32 gaming market. To do, you have to make the following assumptions: 1) That Microsoft is willing throw away all of their backwards compatibility that they worked so hard to preserve the past few decades. 2) That Microsoft even WANTS to get rid of the desktop. Office 2013 runs on the desktop and do you honestly believe Office 2013 will be incompatible with Windows 9? 3) That Microsoft even CAN get rid of the desktop. As mentioned earlier, WinRT is built directly on top of Win32. The recently released .NET Framework 4.5 sits atop Win32 *AND* the desktop APIs. In the past, Microsoft has taken many initiatives that developers did not agree with. With the .NET Framework, they wanted a world of managed code. Did they get it? Nope, just about every single game is still running on Win32. They wanted games on Windows 3.0 back in 1990. Did they get it? Nope, game devs continued making games for DOS until DirectX 6 and 7 came out, a whopping 8 years later. Microsoft won't abandon the Windows desktop until everybody else does. Why? Because they can't. And why would they? Windows 8 has brought many improvements to the desktop, who's to stay Windows 9 won't bring even more? Sure, they focused heavily on touch this time around but that is because that is what they needed the most. Hell - do you think Gabe will? Let's make this very clear: Gabe is not running from Windows 8 because of its deficiencies as a gaming platform, he's running from it because its strengths as one. If Microsoft improves the Metro UI, improves the Store policies, and improves their Xbox Live initiatives such to the point that it becomes an excellent gaming platform, it will kill Valve's position as an online publisher. Imagine further in Windows 9 that the Windows Store comes to the desktop, further solidifying the staying of power of the desktop, yet retaining compatibility with all previous software built for Windows. THAT is what Gabe fears. |
| - Score: 3 |
| RE[5]: It's a Valve's game |
| By lucas_maximus on 2012-10-30 17:52:05 |
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> It isn't when you take long-term into account, something many people refuse to do here. Long-term, Windows is going Metro-only. That effectively kills any serious gaming on Windows - and Microsoft is okay with that, because they've got an Xbox to sell you. No it isn't. There is always going to be something like classic mode. There is just too much existing code to kill it off. > Which is exactly why Valve is working with AMD, NVIDIA, and others. The breakage is not something that's unstoppable or insurmountable - just look at Android. Android is a completely different, they aren't even comparable. Android development is controlled via Google. What sits underneath Android Layer could be anything ... It could be a modified OpenBSD, QNX or something else. When you develop for Android ... you develop against the Android SDK ... the fact that it is Linux is irrelevant to those who release Apps and Games. > Valve could easily work together with the parties involved to come to a - for Valve - stable platform for developers to target. If Google can, then Valve can Only if there is a Steam Distro or we are using Ubuntu (which tends to push stuff buggy crap out early, like the pulse audio fiasco, and in another 6 months wayland). > Especially with the help of major other game companies with which they're already working anyway through Steam. Remember, a Metro-only no-serious-gaming Windows is disastrous for especially NVIDIA. Nobody needs a powerful graphics chip for Metro and Cut The Rope. Oh great, so Valve now dictates what hardware will work best with their games, brilliant! There is C++, Direct X and probably a lot of other stuff. There is no reason why triple A titles can't run in Metro. Considering the Unreal 3 Engine can run in Flash ... There is no reason why say the CryEngine or the Unreal 3 engine can't run in Metro. > You are stuck in the present, unable to look beyond the horizon. Windows' viability as a gaming platform will end in the very near future when Microsoft pulls the plug on the desktop. They've made it very clear they intend to do so, and luckily for us, Valve has the brains to start addressing that situation NOW, instead of when it's too late. I just don't think the future is the same as you are predicting. That isn't the same as the fact that I don't understand what you are saying, I just disagree. Who is right or who will is wrong we will find out, pretending you are some sort of oracle just makes you sound like an arsehole. I don't think anything like the Traditional Desktop is going to go away for maybe another decade, because there is just too much stuff written out there for the current Desktop. Anyway, all my steam games work on Windows 8 perfectly fine, so that alone disproves Gabe's "viability argument". Edited 2012-10-30 18:00 UTC |
| - Score: 3 |
| RE[7]: It's a Valve's game |
| By lucas_maximus on 2012-10-30 17:58:40 |
| It will be very little because all the same APIs that have been around since forever are still there, and the irony will be that many will be bought via Steam. |
| - Score: 3 |
| RE[8]: It's a Valve's game |
| By helf on 2012-10-30 18:17:56 |
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Yeah, I dont quite see wtf thom is talking about. The Metro UI and APIs does not affect games much, if any, as it stands. MS is keeping and improving the APIs games use and all the games need is a Metro frontend. Which would take an hour for a coder to whip up. Most games run fullscreen anyways.. sooo..? So much fearmongering and unsubstantiated BS flying around the internet as to make one sick. |
| - Score: 3 |
| RE[4]: I'm not a agmer, but |
| By Finalzone on 2012-10-30 18:42:18 |
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> The number of people gaming on Linux is less because the hardware support for audio and video isn't as good because there are few companies that support it because there isn't as much of a market because there aren't very many solid games because the the number of people gaming on Linux is less... repeat. A proper solution will be the use of crossplaform library to render those games available to virtually any system. Audio issue, PulseAudio is the most common for the majority of Linux based system. Video issue is related to the vendors themselves (AMD, Nvidia and Intel), some commercial games runs on MESA based driver without hiccups because of minimum requirement. Isn't it ironic the market number is used as an excuse, yet gaming publisher have no problem releasing their game on Apple iMac and MacBook which are far less popular than Microsoft Windows system wordwide? Looking at hundle bundle website (http://www.humblebundle.com/), on average, Linux system users are willing to pay more than both Mac and Windows showing a potential growing marketing. When a gaming company saw that opportunity, expect other to follow the suit. |
| - Score: 2 |
| RE[6]: It's a Valve's game |
| By M.Onty on 2012-10-30 19:04:50 |
|
> > It isn't when you take long-term into account, something many people refuse to do here. Long-term, Windows is going Metro-only. That effectively kills any serious gaming on Windows - and Microsoft is okay with that, because they've got an Xbox to sell you. You don't know what you're talking about. Native Metro apps written in C/C++ are basically the same as native Win32 apps ... Thom didn't mention technical reasons. I assumed he was talking about the family friendly policy on the Windows Store, which suggests Microsoft want to see a certain kind of app on Metro/ModernUI, leaving the gung-ho gaming favourites to the console market. |
| - Score: 4 |
| RE[6]: It's a Valve's game |
| By M.Onty on 2012-10-30 19:11:48 |
| I think you're right to imagine Microsoft taking a far more pragmatic approach than Valve is suggesting. And Valve are certainly doing this for self preservation reasons. But its still worth looking forward to Linux for the desktop being knocked into better shape and thrust upon the world as a platform with a sense of purpose. |
| - Score: 3 |
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