www. O S N E W S .com
News Features Interviews
BlogContact Editorials
.
"The best phone you can buy right now"
By Thom Holwerda on 2017-08-07 20:29:35

The Verge does this thing where they list what they consider to be the best laptop or phone or whatever, and they state the Samsung Galaxy S8 is the best phone for most people.

Samsung's Galaxy S8/S8 Plus is the best phone for most people. It's available across all four US carriers and unlocked. It has the best display on any smartphone right now, a head-turning, premium design, a top-of-the-line camera, reliable battery life, and fast performance. Thanks to Samsung's popularity and the support of all four carriers, the S8 also has plenty of accessories, from cases to battery packs to wireless chargers, available to it.

You can definitely make a case for the S8 being the best phone for most people, but personally, I still consider the iPhone to be the best, safest choice for most non-geeky people. Personally, I prefer Android, and for my personal use, iOS on the iPhone is an exercise in frustration - but iOS provides a more consistent, all-around phone experience that remains fairly static from phone to phone, it's a little simpler to grasp than Android, and Apple has an excellent support system in many countries that's far better than Samsung's hands-off let-the-reseller-handle-it approach.

I wonder - what do any of you consider the best phone for most people? If one of your non-geeky family members seeks your advice, which phone do you suggest they get?

The Verge named the Surface Laptop the best laptop, which I find a baffling choice. It's new and unproven, so we have no idea how it'll hold up over the next few years. An odd choice for sure.

 Email a friend - Printer friendly - Related stories
.
Read Comments: 1-10 -- 11-20 -- 21-30 -- 31-40 -- 41-50 -- 51-60 -- 61-70 -- 71-80 -- 81-90 -- 91-100 -- 101-110 -- 111-120 -- 121-130 -- 131-131
.
RE[15]: iPhone
By CATs on 2017-08-11 08:31:24
> That's extremely belittling. Please keep your tone civil.
My job is literally programming. I don't "think I know some programming".

That's just your opinion. I still do not believe anyone else apart from yourself would call you "advanced user" or "good programmer". And I base this on the things you wrote here, nothing else.

> It's far more advanced to use daemons and software I've written to do the things I want than it is to f--k around with GUIs.
No, it is not. Not at all. Only people who are incapable of taking full advantage of GUI think like that. GUIs are too complicated for them, they don't understand them, so they stay in the console, mucking around in low level and thinking GUIs are lame. When in reality, advanced user with a good GUI can work in ways so advanced, complex and productive that it's completely beyond your comprehension.

> I don't need to click buttons and use menus, instead I can directly modify files, databases, etc. It's more efficient, and more difficult. How is that less advanced?
It is less advanced because you are absolutely clueless how other people use computers in ways much more powerful than you to do very different kind of work. Anyone with 2 brain cells can type characters in a black window all day. But it takes some advanced brain to be able to juggle complex and flexible GUI in an effective and efficient way.

> I see coworkers with multiple monitors and hundreds of tabs and apps open, yet at the end of the day I'm more productive with vim and almost nothing else.
OMG, how clueless you are... Do you seriously think every computer user in the world does nothing else but write code, modify files and databases?.. Did you ever stop to think non-programmers use computers in ways you cannot even imagine? To do work you probably cannot even grasp?

> Remember that the human brain can't actually multitask; we serial single task.
That does not change anything. Computer is a tool, it does not need to mimic human brain on every level.

> If you think you need multiple things open at once, chances are you'd be better served with a higher level single task that abstracts them both away and gets what you need from each.
That's absurd...

Essentially, you're like a cripple in a wheelchair, who sees a marathon runner and thinks he's a fool, because "why would you use your legs when you have wheelchair?"
Permalink - Score: 1
.
RE[16]: iPhone
By woegjiub on 2017-08-11 08:45:37
> I still do not believe anyone else apart from yourself would call you "advanced user" or "good programmer". And I base this on the things you wrote here, nothing else.

Well, considering you've never seen or used any code I've written, I'm going to go ahead and ignore your opinion on that.

What do you use a GUI for? I guarantee the majority of those use cases can be replaced by well programmed tools, terminal interfaces, and web apps.

It's a little awkward that you don't understand programming computers to do things for you is infinitely more powerful than manually clicking around.
Permalink - Score: 2
.
RE[17]: iPhone
By CATs on 2017-08-11 10:01:48
> Well, considering you've never seen or used any code I've written, I'm going to go ahead and ignore your opinion on that.
I've seen your comments on this thread. They are more than enough to realise you're in no way "advanced", but you really, really want to believe you are (and that everyone else is fool to use computers in different ways than you).
Or, maybe you are one of that kind of people who can multiply 5-digit numbers in their heads (=code in certain language), but cannot tie their own shoelaces (=do very simple, but very different tasks)?

> What do you use a GUI for? I guarantee the majority of those use cases can be replaced by well programmed tools, terminal interfaces, and web apps.
Let's do this theoretical experiment. A regular 8-hour work day, during which one must:
* Administer, (re)configure, maintain and troubleshoot dozens of Windows+Linux servers split between two different, separate companies -- all of them simultaneously (since in total there are thousands of servers);
* Do same as above for a few networking devices, firewalls etc. at the same time;
* As an inevitable requirement, use VPNs to connect to those companies;
* Find relevant troubleshooting information on the internet very quickly;
* Read about 50-70 e-mails and respond to 10-15 of them without much delay, sometimes putting snippets of screenshots inside the text;
* Participate in one or more teleconferences, and give a presentation/share screen;
* Write documentation during short breaks when servers are rebooting, some operations are being performed etc.;
* Manage an incident/tasks/requests queue, assigning those to other team members;
* Chat with several colleagues in cases where full-blown e-mail is not required or just too slow;
* Follow relevant IT/security news;
* Do some shopping on eBay when time permits;
* Check on one or two IP cameras;
* Monitor the overall status of certain infrastructure components in real-time;
* Participate in active IRC channel;
* <there are more, but for the time being the above should be enough as an example>

Now, I have my regular workstation, and you have your VIM and your tiling window manager. You are also not allowed to have more than one browser tab (or any other window) open at once.
Or, better yet, you do all that by "modifying files and databases directly".
Ready? Set? Go!..

> It's a little awkward that you don't understand programming computers to do things for you is infinitely more powerful than manually clicking around.
Nope, it's not, wrong again. You're not "programming computer to do things for you". You are simply using computer in such a basic way for such simplistic tasks that the complexity and power of GUIs escape you completely.

Edited 2017-08-11 10:14 UTC
Permalink - Score: 1
.
RE[18]: iPhone
By woegjiub on 2017-08-11 10:56:54
> * Administer, (re)configure, maintain and troubleshoot dozens of Windows+Linux servers split between two different, separate companies -- all of them simultaneously (since in total there are thousands of servers);
You definitely shouldn't be managing that many servers by hand.
Use kubernetes/ansible/etc. and store your configuration as code.
All servers should be completely disposable at all times.

> * Do same as above for a few networking devices, firewalls etc. at the same time;
See above.

> * As an inevitable requirement, use VPNs to connect to those companies;
I manage all VPNs and network interfaces from the terminal. It's extremely simple.

> * Find relevant troubleshooting information on the internet very quickly;
That's what your browser is for; promising answers stay open in tabs, and are closed as soon as you've actioned them.

> * Read about 50-70 e-mails and respond to 10-15 of them without much delay, sometimes putting snippets of screenshots inside the text;
Your OS has screenshotting functionality, and gmail/outlook online/roundcube etc. exists.

> * Participate in one or more teleconferences, and give a presentation/share screen;
WebRTC.

> * Write documentation during short breaks when servers are rebooting, some operations are being performed etc.;
Markdown in vim, commit to a private git repo.

> * Manage an incident/tasks/requests queue, assigning those to other team members;
That's a task that belongs in a browser app.

> * Chat with several colleagues in cases where full-blown e-mail is not required or just too slow;
Yes, slack exists.

> * Follow relevant IT/security news;
RSS. Again, in the browser.

> * Do some shopping on eBay when time permits;
That's not a work task; do that in your own time. Regardless, that's in the browser.

> * Check on one or two IP cameras;
Browser.

> * Monitor the overall status of certain infrastructure components in real-time;
Oh look, another thing that belongs in a webapp.

> * Participate in active IRC channel;
tmux tab/webapp

> Now, I have my regular workstation, and you have your VIM and your tiling window manager. You are also not allowed to have more than one browser tab (or any other window) open at once.
Or, better yet, you do all that by "modifying files and databases directly".
Ready? Set? Go!..

I don't limit myself to one window/tab. I have up to 5 tmux panes and up to about 20 browser tabs open.
I just aggressively kill them in the same way one does emails (yes, I'm at inbox zero too, despite getting quite a steady stream in gsuite).

> Nope, it's not, wrong again. You're not "programming computer to do things for you". You are simply using computer in such a basic way for such simplistic tasks that the complexity and power of GUIs escape you completely.
Well, given that every single thing you've listed can be done perfectly with just terminal and web apps, and you're doing quite a few things manually that should be programatically defined, it looks like you're the one doing things inefficiently.

Keep your browser tasks in bookmarks if you open them 1-2 times a day or less, and pin the tabs you use more than that.
Desktop notifications from your browser will alert you instantly of anything you need to action.
Permalink - Score: 2
.
RE[19]: iPhone
By CATs on 2017-08-11 11:28:59
> You definitely shouldn't be managing that many servers by hand.
Use kubernetes/ansible/etc. and store your configuration as code.
All servers should be completely disposable at all times.

First of all, no one is managing thousands of servers by hand. However, there will always be a few of those thousands that need troubleshooting or specific, individual reconfiguration/tuning.
Second, there is a chunk of physical servers that need to be physical for good reasons, and those cannot be "disposable".
Third, while some companies are big and have thousands of servers, others are small and have only around 10. And it does not make much sense to implement full-blown DSC and large-scale automation for such a small infra.
Fourth, "should, would, could..." No one really cares what you think we "should" do. I already learned it's impossible for you to understand that not everyone has same needs and use-cases as you, but that does not change the fact that for some companies "infrastructure as a code" just doesn't make sense.

> See above
Implement Ansible to manage few devices? Literally, just few: up to 3-5. Are you serious? Nevermind, I already asked you that.

> I manage all VPNs and network interfaces from the terminal. It's extremely simple.
It's much more extremelier and simplier from GUI. But you won't admit that, I know.

> That's what your browser is for; promising answers stay open in tabs, and are closed as soon as you've actioned them.
But wait, you just said that you cannot stand when people keep more than one browser tab open... Now you're disagreeing with yourself...

> Your OS has screenshotting functionality, and gmail/outlook online/roundcube etc. exists.
OS screenshotting functionality is extremely limited, and web-based e-mail clients are absolutely unusable for heavy-duty, intense work. If you ever used e-mail in a corporate environment seriously, you would understand. At best, they are a "backup" option in case you would lose your workstation and need to work from someone else's computer temporarily.

> WebRTC
Tried that, it failed on us almost every time in one way or another. Also, performance was abysmal.

> Markdown in vim, commit to a private git repo.
Not an option, in this company all documentation must be uploaded to SharePoint site. They don't want to hear about your GIT. Also, how do you insert screenshots into documentation using vim?

> > * Manage an incident/tasks/requests queue, assigning those to other team members;
That's a task that belongs in a browser app.

How do you manage to do that with only one browser tab open at once? Do you close and re-open task list every 10 minutes to check if there's anything new? Why not do the same by modifying files and databases on server directly? What happened to your awesome "advancedness"?

> > * Chat with several colleagues in cases where full-blown e-mail is not required or just too slow;
Yes, slack exists.

Again, how did you come so far with only one window open at once?

> > * Follow relevant IT/security news;
RSS. Again, in the browser.

Again, did you even calculate how much time you wasted constantly closing and re-opening that one browser tab?

> > * Do some shopping on eBay when time permits;
That's not a work task; do that in your own time. Regardless, that's in the browser.

That's not up to you to decide, my employer allows me to do this. Also, does your philosophy of no GUI and no more than one tab at once not apply any more when you're on your own time?

> > * Check on one or two IP cameras;
Browser.

You just wasted some more time closing old browser tab and opening IP camera URL.

> > * Monitor the overall status of certain infrastructure components in real-time;
Oh look, another thing that belongs in a webapp.

Oh look, someone's fingers are getting tired of clicking that [X] at the corner of a browser tab, just to re-open it again.

> > * Participate in active IRC channel;
tmux tab/webapp

Why are you not participating in IRC channel by modifying IRC server's files and databases directly? Do you close IRC window every time you send a message? How do you even see the old messages, then?

> I don't limit myself to one window/tab. I have up to 5 tmux panes and up to about 20 browser tabs open.
I just aggressively kill them in the same way one does emails (yes, I'm at inbox zero too, despite getting quite a steady stream in gsuite).

Oh, so now you changed your tune... Suddenly, more than one browser tab is OK...

> Well, given that every single thing you've listed can be done perfectly with just terminal and web apps, and you're doing quite a few things manually that should be programatically defined, it looks like you're the one doing things inefficiently.
As one friend once said, you can send your e-mails perfectly with just telnet, but there are better ways to do things. Seeing how you try to force yourself to do absolutely every single task using only terminal and web apps, I am beginning to think you have some kind of weird neurosis or anxiety disorder related to these things.
Permalink - Score: 1
.
RE[8]: Apple == expensive
By krreagan on 2017-08-11 13:09:15
Wow! I guess that might be the first time I seen the fact that you can not get updates with Android very often (if ever) as an advantage. I still have Iphone 5s & 4s that are very usable. And by the way... you don't have to upgrade the OS. So, saying that you cannot upgrade is an advantage over the choice of upgrading or not, is idiotic.
Permalink - Score: 2
.
RE[11]: Apple == expensive
By Bill Shooter of Bul on 2017-08-11 13:57:59
> You see how Google or HTC manage security, then. I cannot bear to have faults falling on my shoulders.
Not sure what you're implication is.

You are ultimately responsible for your own security. Its a difficult job, made more difficult by closed sourced code and just the volume of it. Best practice is to get some one else to do as much of it as possible, and react appropriately to any security breaches.

In this case that would mean using a phone that still gets timely security updates. If your phone doesn't its not your fault, but if you do nothing to change that it is.
Permalink - Score: 2
.
RE[12]: Apple == expensive
By Alfman on 2017-08-11 16:37:26
Bill shooter of Bul,

> You are ultimately responsible for your own security. Its a difficult job, made more difficult by closed sourced code and just the volume of it.

True, it is a major problem that owners don't have access to the devices, drivers, code, toolchains, etc that we would need to keep our devices up to date independently from the manufacture.


> In this case that would mean using a phone that still gets timely security updates. If your phone doesn't its not your fault, but if you do nothing to change that it is.

Yes and no. If a car has a firmware glitch affecting many owners, the manufacturer is expected to fix it. But with cell phones suddenly it's the owners fault? This is clearly a double standard. The tech industry holds itself to much lower standards than everyone else. I hate that this is the case, but it's probably due to the lack of regulation.
Permalink - Score: 2
.
RE[13]: Apple == expensive
By Bill Shooter of Bul on 2017-08-11 19:24:29
If I drive a Model T and get rammed with a Chevy Tahoe going at a slow 30 MPH. I'mmma gonna die. Is that really Ford's fault? The safety problems of the Model T when compared to modern vehicles are well known.

There is obviously no firm definitive answer here, but as a practical matter a user is responsible for their own security to the extent its possible and practical. They must make the best choices they can given the available information.

Years ago, windows security was a nightmare. Best way to deal with it was either switch to a different OS, say Mac OSX, linux or some such OS. Or at the very least install a firewall and anti virus.

Action is required on the part of users to keep themselves safe. They are required to make good choices. Should the be required to? Well, manufacturers should do their best to make sure that they have the information they need and users are safe by default, so the safe choice is the easy choice.
Permalink - Score: 2
.
RE[14]: Apple == expensive
By Alfman on 2017-08-11 20:59:23
Bill Shooter,

> If I drive a Model T and get rammed with a Chevy Tahoe going at a slow 30 MPH. I'mmma gonna die. Is that really Ford's fault? The safety problems of the Model T when compared to modern vehicles are well known.


I realize your trying to pick an extreme case to make a point that there have to be limits, which is true. However the model T is a century old antique whereas we're talking about phones that are brand new. Many new cars have a 5 year warranty to fix things that broke and manufacturer defects, I'd like to see the tech industry match that.


> There is obviously no firm definitive answer here, but as a practical matter a user is responsible for their own security to the extent its possible and practical. They must make the best choices they can given the available information.

Yes, users need to take responsibility for updating their phones, however the point is mute if manufacturers refuse to provide those updates. Manufacturers must take some responsibility for providing updates or enabling the community to build updates for themselves. Blaming consumers is an excuse for manufacturers to lower manufacturing standards.

Edited 2017-08-11 21:05 UTC
Permalink - Score: 2

Read Comments 1-10 -- 11-20 -- 21-30 -- 31-40 -- 41-50 -- 51-60 -- 61-70 -- 71-80 -- 81-90 -- 91-100 -- 101-110 -- 111-120 -- 121-130 -- 131-131

No new comments are allowed for stories older than 10 days.
This story is now archived.

.
News Features Interviews
BlogContact Editorials
.
WAP site - RSS feed
© OSNews LLC 1997-2007. All Rights Reserved.
The readers' comments are owned and a responsibility of whoever posted them.
Prefer the desktop version of OSNews?