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The Surface beast
By Thom Holwerda on 2017-12-04 20:58:19

For me the Surface Book 2 was the MacBook Pro that we had all wanted/expected from Apple, it just wears a different logo. While other reviews will read off the spec sheets and talk about the 17 hour battery life and GX yadda yadda yadda processor, they sometimes forget that we (the creative professionals) use these as tools. What Microsoft has done with the Surface Book 2 is make a system void of gimmicks, because gimmicks don't hold up in the working world. Our jobs will not benefit from being able to tap an emoji on a scroll bar, they will benefit from the ability to get work done. As a photographer, it feels extremely odd to say this, but I sincerely feel that the Surface Book 2 is not only a strong contender for the laptop to own, but actually the clear cut choice of the computer to have on set.

There seems to be a lot of interest in Surface from people disappointed with the recent MacBook Pros.

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Read Comments: 1-10 -- 11-20 -- 21-24
By CaptainN- on 2017-12-04 21:02:52
If only it didn't run Windows... The surface book hardware is gorgeous, and I'd love to see Cupertino break out their copiers.

Apple has a tablet + laptop story - get both a laptop and an iPad Pro, but that's very expensive, and they aren't telling that story well.

Edited 2017-12-04 21:03 UTC
Permalink - Score: 1
blue screen of death by virus
By raglan on 2017-12-04 21:14:21
i'm still scarred from my 5-year foray into Windows 20 years ago. i feel like a lot of the people who are saying they are thinking about switching have probable never used Windows or never done much work in it. all i remember is crashing, drivers, popups, blue screens, BIOS, and basically messing with the computer instead of doing things with it. i'll take a slower computer with a useless touchbar over that any day

Edited 2017-12-04 21:14 UTC
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Apple has changed
By project_2501 on 2017-12-04 21:24:57
I was late to the Apple circus.

After years of terrible computers, terrible experience with Windows 3.1, 95, 98 (crash-mania), NT4, 2000, XP, win7 (not so bad)... and terrible laptops with poor battery life, terrible trackpads, ... and years if trying to get Linux display drivers, power management, disk optimisation, function keys, don't rendering etc to work.. I tried an Apple Macbook Pro 2015 13".

It was hands down the best computer I'd ever had. Long battery life so I never took a charger with me. Excellent screen and accurate enough colours. Fantastic trackpad. Great keyboards. Solid build quality. Stuff just worked. The OS wasn't open but i didn't have to worry about registries, or driver's, or don't rendering, or paper management... And it didn't come bundled with crapware from Dell or Lenovo or HP or whatever.

It just wasn't quite smooth with a 4k display so I upgraded to a 2017. The keybaord was a disaster ergonomically. And it keeps failing. Even after replacement. The wrong dust will kill your keybaord. The keybaord is widely reported. Less well reported is the poor thermal design - which means despite the faster CPU, it throttles quickly so you don't get any benefit. Worse.. it overheats. Run YouTube or VMware and the fans hit max and you can watch the CPU approach 100 degrees C. In clamshell mode this damages the display. Which apple replaced. But that doesn't cure the root design problem... Prioritising thinness over all else.

Apple support used to be good. Now I get the many calls not answered, call queues, failing to reply, sending me on unnecessary trips, ... That's I'd expect from a lesser brand who only cares about the initial sale.

Apple are now a fashion company.

More detailed write up here - incl videos and screenshots.


I'm now using a 2015 Macbook Pro 15 and that model had an already out of date CPU on release .. it doesn't run much slower, but it runs without damaging itself.

In future I'm going to look at the Surface .. I'm told Apple no longer can claim an exclusively good trackpad or battery life.

From Apple to Microsoft. The world has turned upside down and inside out!
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RE: Apple has changed
By Alfman on 2017-12-05 02:09:16

> Apple are now a fashion company.

To be fair, apple's always been a fashion company, but they were a fashion company with good laptops. Now they're a fashion company with bad laptops. While we're at it, the mac pro is guilty of form over function as well. Many people who just want to use macos are not well served by apple's hardware these days. It's over priced, yes, but the real disappoint is that it under delivers.

Edited 2017-12-05 02:11 UTC
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RE: blue screen of death by virus
By karunko on 2017-12-05 07:11:50
> i'm still scarred from my 5-year foray into Windows 20 years ago.
And pray tell us: how is your experience from 20 years ago relevant today? Or do you really think that things are still the same?

Heck, even Microsoft itself is almost unrecognizable from the bad bad Microsoft of the Gates/Ballmer era! Your were just trolling, right? ;-)

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RE: Apple has changed
By Sidux on 2017-12-05 13:12:52
Apple was never taking into account thermals. the priority was keeping their systems silent and allowing their set of apps to run noticeably faster than the competition.
This unfortunately still applies today. Say what you will but Final Cut is still better coded than what Adobe pushes out the door.
On the other hand I still get thermal throttle when running Java apps (Lotus Notes and part of IBM suite). Putting a VM on top of that is pointless but fun fact is that there are workarounds.
If you really want to use Final Cut or anything else from Apple ecosystem you don't have any alternatives..
At the end of the day it should be "what am I going to use it for" and not only "how fast it's under the hood".
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But I don't want to run Windows
By fmaxwell on 2017-12-05 16:47:57
I've got two systems running Windows 10 and I much prefer MacOS. So, no matter how nice a Surface device Microsoft makes, it's not a suitable replacement for a MacBook Pro.

I have used Windows since Windows 2.0 and switched to Mac around the time that OS-X Snow Leopard was coming out. I've never regretted the move and see nothing coming out of Redmond to tempt me to switch back.
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RE: Apple has changed
By fmaxwell on 2017-12-05 16:59:34
> Apple are now a fashion company.
As I, a 50-something, unshaven man in a T-shirt, hair unkempt and with two days of beard stubble, sit in front of my Mac, I realize that I am a total slave to fashion.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going upstairs to use my iPad Pro, likely belching occasionally as I do.
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RE[2]: Apple has changed
By CaptainN- on 2017-12-05 18:30:58
It's worth noting in the context of your post, that the Adobe suite runs WAY faster under Windows on the same hardware, compared to how it runs on macOS.
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RE: But I don't want to run Windows
By CaptainN- on 2017-12-05 18:33:05
macOS is the only thing holding me to Apple hardware. I just prefer the way it works over WIndows. It's all the little things, like the small delays you get when starting apps, and losing input focus, and why does it take 10 years to re-install a printer driver when you move the USB plug from one port to another?
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