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Windows 10 S becoming a mode, not a version
By Thom Holwerda on 2018-02-07 01:02:10

Windows 10 S, the Microsoft Store-only version of Windows, is going away, but not really.

Currently, Windows 10 S is a unique edition of Windows 10. It's based on Windows 10 Pro; Windows 10 Pro has various facilities that enable system administrators to restrict which software can be run, and Windows 10 S is essentially a preconfigured version of those facilities. In addition to locking out arbitrary downloaded programs, it also prevents the use of certain built-in Windows features such as the command-line, PowerShell, and Windows Subsystem for Linux.

For those who can't abide by the constraints that S imposes, you can upgrade 10 S to the full 10 Pro. This upgrade is a one-shot deal: there's no way of re-enabling the S limitations after upgrading to Pro. It's also a paid upgrade: while Microsoft offered it as a free upgrade for a limited time for its Surface Laptop, the regular price is $49.

Nothing much actually seems to be changing; it just turns Windows 10 S from a version into a mode. Pretty much a distinction without a difference. My biggest issue here is that you can't go from regular Windows 10 back to Windows 10 S if you ever had a reason to do so (e.g. if Windows were ever to be usable with just Metro apps in the future and you want the additional security Windows 10 S provides). Seems like an odd restriction.

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Read Comments: 1-10 -- 11-20 -- 21-28
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RE[4]: Mission creep is afoot
By Alfman on 2018-02-07 15:59:55
avgalen,

> Last time you mentioned force and this time you mentioned force on OEMs as well. I always debate you on that part of your statement because for the most part we agree otherwise. I have no problem with gradually phasing in restrictions if they are optional or beneficial. I believe that the market (supported by the law) will make sure that such restrictions will only become the new normal if people accept them.

Ideally yes, but the fault with this is that it assumes the market is competitive, and unfortunately it isn't. When one party has too much power, it can result in changes gaining "acceptance" through force & coercion rather than customer demand. I don't like it one bit but the fact is coercion is a very effective business strategy for monopolies and oligopolies.


> Currently I couldn't do what I want to do on a computer in S-mode so I use "Full mode".
...
My point is...Options!


As is mine, that's why I keep focusing on the importance of owner rights and combating coercive practices that hurt competition.
Permalink - Score: 4
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RE: Time
By dionicio on 2018-02-07 16:03:54
:D

Well, It is a very good idea, actually -Computers falling back to the free version on caducating the high maintenance, loosely controlled, desktop version.

[Your "Pro" profile going into hibernation].

Still usable junk, give it to poor, or pay renewal -which should go logarithmically lower, as you become senior client, by the way.

A caducated machine have already paid original duty. Should allow UEFI install of Open Software, for poor, for students.

Edited 2018-02-07 16:13 UTC
Permalink - Score: 1
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RE[4]: Mission creep is afoot
By Dr.Cyber on 2018-02-07 16:04:25
> I have no problem with gradually phasing in restrictions if they are optional or beneficial. I believe that the market (supported by the law) will make sure that such restrictions will only become the new normal if people accept them.


The problem for most people is that instead of the the peoples wishes shaping the market the market will shape the peoples wishes. This is how industry has worked for a long time and why harmful things as smoking became popular.
Permalink - Score: 0
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RE[5]: Mission creep is afoot
By darknexus on 2018-02-07 16:20:03
You have the right of it but give a bad, and I mean really bad, example. Smoking in one form or another has been popular long before modern industry and the market forces that came with it. The best example I can think of off the top of my head is the media industry. I'll gladly stand in a room full of smokers before I subject myself to that brain-killing stuff they come out with.
Permalink - Score: 2
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RE[5]: Mission creep is afoot
By avgalen on 2018-02-07 16:22:10
> Domain, Hyper-V, Web server, RDS — these are all server roles. So you're saying, that in non-server versions of Windows, the only "optional packages" needed are a web browser and a PDF reader? Mkay... Since when is a web browser "optional" on an average computer? Also, why do you need PDF reader these days? I do all my PDF reading on a browser anyway — Chrome is just as good of a PDF reader as Adobe Acrobat Reader for most regular PDFs.
Joining a domain is an extra feature that is not in Home but is available in Pro and Enterprise.
Hyper-V and IIS are also available in Pro and higher and are very useful for developers. They are certainly not only server roles.
RDS...also available in Windows 10 Enterprise so you can "SSH in" to your workstation.
And XPS/PDF are not reader functions but are writer functions so you can "print to PDF"
It seems you don't know much about the optional features that are available in non-server versions of Windows.
Also, they were not an exclusive list, just some examples
Permalink - Score: 3
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RE[5]: Mission creep is afoot
By avgalen on 2018-02-07 16:33:52
> > The moment "Full Mode" is no longer an option I will be right there with you, kicking and screaming.
Wonderful. Too bad it'll be too late by then.

It is going to be a long time from now when that will happen. Almost all products that Microsoft sells still require "Full Mode". If their own products don't require full mode anymore we might have actually reached a point where "S mode" has all the benefits and none of the negatives and should be the only mode.
Let me put it this way:
The moment I can run the entirety of Visual Studio (including compiling/debugging/android emulators/etc) from S Mode there might not be a reason for full mode to exist anymore
Permalink - Score: 3
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RE[5]: Mission creep is afoot
By avgalen on 2018-02-07 16:47:02
> As is mine, that's why I keep focusing on the importance of owner rights and combating coercive practices that hurt competition.
Great, please keep doing so. But this article is about extra options that won't impact your rights and only seem to offer benefits (lower price, a simpler and thus more secure system) for those that can live with the limitations.

If somebody makes a RedHat clone tomorrow that can only be configured to always accept all Alpha updates from all channels I wouldn't see a use for that personally but there is no reason for me to combat that distro. Maybe there is a group of cutting edge developers/testers that would love such a distro.
If that distro becomes very popular it would be because people like using it. If that distro dies out because nobody uses it anymore that is possible as well. And if all other distro's suddenly stop being available and only this one is left, well there isn't much I could do about that. Apparently my needs are not worth the distro-makers time. I could still continue to use the current distro I have running and there is no obligation for anyone to keep making an OS the way I like it.
Permalink - Score: 2
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RE[2]: Still 'Lipstick on a Pig'
By shotsman on 2018-02-07 16:49:28
I've been a fan of Linux since I got Slackware 1.1 on Floppy Disc free with a computer mag a long time ago. I've also been a Unix user since around 1986.
I'm Windows free because I'm exactly that. I've ditched Windows for good and TBH, good riddance to it although writing software for it provided a pretty decent living for me for the last 20 years.
Windows 10 was the final straw that broke the camels back for me. I'll never go back to it.
Permalink - Score: 1
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RE[2]: Still 'Lipstick on a Pig'
By shotsman on 2018-02-07 16:50:12
Not an addiction but a necessity in order to earn a crust.
Permalink - Score: 2
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RE[6]: Mission creep is afoot
By Alfman on 2018-02-07 18:22:00
avgalen,

> It is going to be a long time from now when that will happen. Almost all products that Microsoft sells still require "Full Mode". If their own products don't require full mode anymore we might have actually reached a point where "S mode" has all the benefits and none of the negatives and should be the only mode.
Let me put it this way:
The moment I can run the entirety of Visual Studio (including compiling/debugging/android emulators/etc) from S Mode there might not be a reason for full mode to exist anymore


Firstly, vendors can and do make exceptions for themselves because they don't want to live under the same restrictions they are imposing on others. However you're also missing something fundamental, the fact that a developer might always have additional machine access (ie buying a specialized developer model, or paying for a developer key, etc) in no way mitigates the loss of rights for regular owners. Owners should always have the right to install 3rd party stores, browsers, search engines, etc. Of course whether they use it or not is up to them, but it should be their right. It's just not good enough if only a few privileged owners have access.



> If somebody makes a RedHat clone tomorrow that can only be configured to always accept all Alpha updates from all channels I wouldn't see a use for that personally but there is no reason for me to combat that distro. Maybe there is a group of cutting edge developers/testers that would love such a distro.

Your example is subject to the GPL, which explicitly gives owners and 3rd parties the right to take everything and modify it to their hearts content.

Honestly if windows 10 s was offered under the same conditions as this hypothetical example, then there wouldn't be anywhere near the controversy over owner rights because any deficiencies could be rectified by the community.

Edited 2018-02-07 18:35 UTC
Permalink - Score: 2

Read Comments 1-10 -- 11-20 -- 21-28

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